125: Climbing down the mountain with good grace - from cynical to woo-woo with Kate Toon
Ever felt a little... Different?
Sounds a bit interesting to say, but you aren’t alone with this.
If you love listening to inspiring stories of entrepreneurship, get your headphones out because episode 125 of The Essential Shift Podcast is the one.
You will hear from Kate Toon, her insights into digital marketing and how she navigates being a mum, a business owner and all the things that make her unique.
This conversation will leave you feeling ready to leave your impact on the world.
If you LOVED the episode, make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag me @essential.shift and @katetoon
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KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS
How to embrace change and authenticity
Different phases of life
What to do when your priorities and values shift
Challenging societal norms
The importance of legacy and impact
SHOW RESOURCES
FOLLOW KATE on INSTAGRAM - HERE
CHECK out Kate’s BOOK - HERE
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Find out more about how to WORK WITH ME - HERE
If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me @essential.shift.
ABOUT THE GUEST
Kate Toon is an award-winning entrepreneur and parent to one human and one fur baby. From her humble backyard shed on the Central Coast of NSW she masterminds an ambitious business universe, helping thousands of other humans to build their own version of success through digital marketing and business know-how. Kate is a renowned speaker, mentor, educator and podcaster. She’s been named Australia’s Most Influential Small Business Woman (2022), one of Australia’s Top 50 Small Business Leaders (2022), and Businesswoman of the Year and Training & Education Provider of the Year at the national My Business Awards (2020). She’s also the founder of CopyCon and The Digital Marketing Collective Conference, and a resident expert on Kochie’s Business Builders. In her spare time, Kate is often found taking Gym selfies and rollerskating, much to the embarrassment of her teenage son.
Bless it be.
With love, Laetitia!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Laetitia Andrac 3:45
Hello, Kate, so nice to have you on the essential shift podcasts. Oh, it's lovely to be here. I feel that by the end of this episode, I'm going to be doing your accent because I adore it. I'm gonna be like, Ah, no, it's a beautiful month. You Oh, God.
Kate Toon 4:01
Thank you for that. You know, my daughter's well, both born in Australia. They have such a thick Australian accent when they speak French. It's so interesting. I don't know if the same thing with your boy. If he has a sick Australian accent or if he has your UK accent he's very British but his father is French. So he speaks a little bit of French but he's got a quite a good accent actually. He's very oil you know?
Okay, let's get into it. Kate. So, for the listener, we don't know you. I have introduced you the beginning of the podcast. But what I always love to do is ask the first question around. Who are you as a human being en ergetically, emotionally spiritually? Can you share a bit about you? Oh, this this podcast is gonna be so challenging for me. I am a woman, a mum, a daughter, and energetically. You know, I like to pretend that I'm a bit of a dark soul. But I do wonder if that's true as time goes on. I've often seen myself as a bit of an outsider but I think there's a lot of us outside to be honest. Maybe there's more of us outside than inside. I think I'm I like to take my business seriously, but not take myself too seriously.
I'm still working out how to be a human. I'm not sure I've got all the answers yet.
Laetitia Andrac 5:22
I love that and thank you for your honesty. This is always so refreshing your honesty and I know you're I love that about you Kate and definitely in the entrepreneurial sphere. A lot of us are rebel or different. We don't fit in a box because actually we didn't really fit in the corporate box would you like to share with us your origin story? Because I love when you share how you started your own business. And then we'll go through where you are now. But how did you start it because you started with a corporate role like many of us as corporate dropout, but how did you start it that? Yeah, so I worked in advertising for many years events and then advertising and yeah, I think I don't have objection or defiance disorder, but I really don't like being told what to do by anybody. And I don't know what that is. I just sort of think I know better. Which is terrible because I obviously don't do you know, I mean, I certainly didn't when my 20s I didn't know what I was doing. So I've always struggled to have bosses. And I also struggled to be a boss. You know, I don't like having to motivate people and set KPIs and all of that I'm a doer. I like to just get on with stuff. So yes, I didn't really fit the mold, but I saw no way out. I'm not a risk taker. I was the primary breadwinner, but then I got pregnant. And I'd been told I wouldn't be able to get pregnant. So it was a big shock and a sign from the gods. And I thought I this is the kind of mum I want to be and this is the kind of life I want and it does not involve commuting to an advertising agency and working 10 hour days on pitches. So I gave up my proper job when I was five months pregnant and started freelancing, doing all manner of things but then edging into copywriting and SEO and that was kind of the first five years of my business. Hmm, thank you for sharing that because many of us the journey through much resistance is actually a big shift for many women in business. So much resistance is when you for anyone who doesn't know that much resistance is a moment where you become a mother. Oh, thank you. Sorry. It's a new word for me. I didn't know Metris since I have a few blog I trained quite well on the SEO with that word. So it's a moment where you're almost shift but also your values, your sense of purpose, your sense of belonging. And for many of us it's a moment if you haven't had these moments before in your life through house or through family. stuff happening, where you really reconsider everything. And you review your business you review your life you review your career, and I know certainly for me, my burnout was my first call out around you need to change things deeply in your life. But my second collapse was when I became a mom and I know many women start their own business when they become mother. So it's kind of a beautiful moment of questioning and embracing your own path. We just say kids that's you trust your intuition in business. So would you say your use most the rational brain? I'm quite great question. No, I think I am I go with my guts. So when all the evidence suggests that something isn't going to work, I can just feel in my bones that it is and there's been a number of proof points in that when I started my SEO course. You know, I was one of the only female I SEOs in Australia. There's lots now which is great to see. And everyone told around me said you can't teach SEO changes too much too technical. And I just knew that I could and that's proven right. My book my most recent book, you know, got rejected by a few publishers, but then I just knew it was a good idea people like there's no audience for it. And it's like, yes, there is. And so yeah, I would say I go with my gut. I'm not very data driven.
Kate Toon 9:07
I seek evidence from humans, not necessarily data, if that makes sense. But yes, yes, it does vary, guided by as I said, I think I know better than that.
So I think that's my intuition is very confident. I may not be confident, but my intuition is definitely and this is, you know, what you describe is definitely a deep, intuitive. You are a deep intuitive person and I know you're quite new to the spiritual world. Whoo, where do you where you know, as we were, we met in person and we love to chat and you're very cynical. You're such a fun human being but at the same time you open yourself to spirituality. Would you like to share a bit more about your journey? Is there were moments where you're like, Oh, I'm open to that now. Well, I don't know. You're probably the most woowoo person I know. And I love talking to you because it opens up your eyes, doesn't it? I think you know, my dad was very black and white very science motivated. I've never had religion in my life. You know, I'm not that's not necessarily spirituality. But, you know, my partner is big into Buddhism and I've been on a number of retreats and they definitely cause shifts in May you go quiet for 10 days. Certainly. Did you do I think I'll do that. I think yes, I'm British. You know, we cover up our trauma and our emotion with sarcasm. And that gets that gets you quite a long way but it doesn't get you all the way there and it becomes a bit worrying after a while to just be relentlessly cynical and sarcastic. I'm just honestly a bit tired of it. So I do think I am embracing my woowoo the universe has been very kind to me and I have to acknowledge that can't keep on pretending it's all me. I've been very lucky. And I think I put out good vibes and they mostly come back there's always one rotten egg. But we focus on that rotten egg. So yes, I think I'm I think I'm shifting and I you know, you talked about Matri essence is there a word for the end of Matri essence like when you moving into menopause and all of that, my role and my purpose and my definition of myself is shifting again now and I'm not sure what the future holds for me. And that's a bit exciting, but a bit scary. Yes. So we have a word for that. So around the cycle as a woman, you have the maid and phase and you have the mother phase which you shift when you move through my choices. And then you have the Marga phase, and then the corona phase. So right now your Mega phase, no Crone.
Laetitia Andrac 11:31
Crone. Yeah, but you can call it suggestions if that's helpful. So J.
Kate Toon 11:38
Essence in Crone Yeah, crying makes me think of some old woman in a shroud over I love the Crone site is like my hair and the wise woman was sharing her wisdom situation on Crone be more Crone. There we go. That's my hashtag from now on. But right now you're potentially in your Maga phase, which is really this moment where you have kids who have grown up and it's your time to teach stepping into the teacher chapter and you you embody that so much for me, your big teacher, and especially witnessing how you shifted, which is my next question. How you shifted from adding this outside look, from your business being like oh my gosh, Kate, as it all she has such a big business with a big team, big product, big offering and you went through a big shift last year, and maybe it's linked to you, you know, menopause and all of that, or perimeter pose, which is really this Marga phase, you know, coming in so do you want to share with us, the coming down of the Montaigne, or this moment that you were like, Oh, that's nice, nice view. But actually, I don't want that anymore because I think this is so courageous. Yeah, I think well, there is a term called summit syndrome where you get to your imagined top of the mountain and you've achieved everything you hope to achieve, and you're kind of looking from the top and it looks good, but it's like, you know, what do you do next you create another site or do you climb back down? So yes, I kind of think about climbing down the mountain is actually something I might want to work on for my next book. But the next one? Yes, yes. I'm on number two at the moment. It's absolute torture. I think you set these goals, you know, I want to make a million dollars and then you make million dollars and it's like, alright, that's great, but it doesn't, you know, it doesn't change my life. As much as I thought it was or the things that I could change don't mean that much to me. I'm not a buyer of lube guitars. I'm not somebody who needs expensive things and I don't frown upon people who are but that's not me. So therefore, endlessly earning money to replace my line is you know, I'm replacing perfectly good cushions with new cushions. It's just pointless, right? And so then I kind of went down an ego route of wanting to be maybe a bit famous, and I was speaking at events all over the world, but it just totally mess with my adrenals you know, you know, it's the whole, I'm pretty introverted. So to force myself to be extroverted. You have to have drink alcoholic cortisol levels go up and ah, it just wasn't for me either. I miss my family. And then then you're like maybe it's a adoration getting testimonials having good vibes. But after all said and done, you know, who cares about any of it you know, you want to live a eulogy life not a CV life. You know, and that's why I'm getting back to now that is from a very smug perspective of having ticked off a lot of my goals. So, you know, I'm talking from in a different viewpoint, and you know, I'm not saying any of those goals are valid, and they're all right for me at the time. But now I'm just like, What am I doing what's it all for? And it's a bit of an existential question, and I don't want to navel gaze too much because I think I would fall into my own belly button and never get back out again. But it is a big shift. And I'm I'm lost a little bit at the moment and I'm, it's, it's scary but interesting. I think it's very interesting. Because it's actually this moment in spirituality, which we call the moment of finding your next vision, your vision quest and going inward and, you know, going by yourself in the world and not eating for three days potentially for pure vision that I'm gonna go. There's not much wild around your mind, but I could Yeah, I could do that in my back garden. Maybe it's not real wild. But it's those moments where you're really reconnecting with your own vision and what's next because often what's happening is in our, you know, early 20s 30s We take on other people goals, and that's part of the journey of maiden mother and then when you enter Maga phase or some of us enter into earlier things to the spiritual work and the journey and all of that. We're like, Okay, what's my true vision? And going on this vision quest is actually very powerful because then you create what's really unique to you and your legacy, which is what you said you know, I don't want to be judged by my CV but my my eulogy I think it's so beautiful, how you put it, you have like a way with word honestly gates, you are the best copywriter. I know. I also give credit that I don't mean That's mine. I think I heard it on a podcast. I love this layer of spirituality and meaning that you're putting on top of my kind of rational journey because it all makes sense. I mean, I think you get to this stage and you call it the Maga stage I call it the giving les F stage. I mean you've spent your whole life thinking I want to get married and have kids and buy a house and and have a job and do this and please my parents and get a pat on the bottom. And then you're like for what? No one sitting, no one cares. Do you know what I mean? No one really cares about all your achievements and things you've done and therefore they meet you need to care. And then you have this awful moment where you go oh my god, I don't care either.
And all these things I thought was so important. I just not that important to me and it's yeah it's it I'm I'm on the vision quest. I'm gonna go on a vision quest. And you're really embodies this Maga phase which is if you link it to the season. It's a harvest. It's when actually you're harvesting. So you planted the seeds during your maiden phase, which was the spring you like watch the full bloom very busy mothering which is very active during the summer phase of your life which is mother and then the Marga phase is a harvest, which is about stepping back looking, collecting, harvesting. And you know, questioning what do I want to harvest today? What do I want to put my energy to harvest because harvesting is still you know, requires effort to harvest but it's there. It's all there for you to collect and you get to pick and gather all that up before crone in your winter phase in your winter phase grown into winter which is very powerful as well because winter things are happening underneath the surface and this is when you share your wisdom with other for them to plant the seed and the cycle continues.
I'm gonna be so whoo by the end of this podcast, you're not going to know me Italia. This is amazing. I love it.
Laetitia Andrac 18:09
So in my book lighted I speak about the light bulb moments. So those moments which other people may call fucked up moments, but they're actually moments where you really, really question yourself or question your business. Did you have any moments like this in your business journey and I know you had many reading your book, I highly recommend anyone listening to this podcast to read K book. We'll talk about it at the end. But really, those moments where you're like oh my gosh, this is a big fuckup moment, but actually it's a big light bulb moment. Would you like to share with anyone to inspire them? Yeah, I've had to the first one makes me sound like an utter hope I can say Wangka but I'm gonna say anyway, so you might have heard about it was one I think it was a couple of years ago. And I sold out my SEO course in eight hours. And so in one day, I made $160,000 Which into some entrepreneurs might be nothing but to me was more than I'd earned in the previous year. Two years, I think. And it just felt surreal and it didn't hit home and it was weird. And I you know, close the site down and then I emptied the dishwasher, you know, and it was just this complete moment of anticlimax and oddness. Obviously, it changed my life in many ways, financial security and whatever. But the moment itself was wholly unsatisfying. So that was one and then another. I think it's been a gradual shift. I worry a lot. I did worry a lot about what other people think of me and what other people are doing. And so you know, there's other I'll see other entrepreneurs online, you know, they're running a retreat in Bali or they're speaking at this event or they're, they're doing this and it all looks fabulous and you know, for a long time, I've kind of washed watch from the sidelines, gnashing my teeth going, why, why aren't I having that? And then, you know, over recent years, I've I've really managed to shift and go a it's probably not true. A lot of what we see on social media isn't true, but even if it is true, do I really, really want that? Do I want that? Do I want to be running a retreat in Bali? No, I don't. I'm introverted. I couldn't stand to do four days of talking to people. I would hate it. You know, do I want to have photoshoots where I'm blowing confetti? No, it's not me. So while I, a part of me wants that it's like the part of you that wants to be popular and be a Midian crowd when you know that you wouldn't enjoy it. I think I've become a bit more real about recognizing when my ego or my weird part of me is wanting things that aren't don't serve me. Does that make sense? That was babble. I hope it made sense. No, it makes complete sense and know that this is really as his shift back into alignment and really honoring your own truth and your own intuition and what you really want to go after, and we all have those moments. I had those moments when I you know jumped out of Telstra as a GM and started this business. I thought initially is that, you know, I wanted to earn this much money and impact this many people and do all these things. And actually now I'm like, I'm so good. I just want to work less ran, you know this business in my own way, impact the right people and I don't care if people are like oh my gosh, she's so strategic and who I don't even see where she plays. I don't care. You're not my people. So it's really like owning that and we had the conversation today around Stephanie's a synchronicity. I noticed because intuition is also coming through synchronicities like this. I was talking with someone in my team this morning. I was like, Oh my gosh, we need to do an NT campaign from those people were like walking down the you know, the Louis Vuitton shop and the Chanel bag. I used to work for Chanel in Paris. I have plenty of Chanel bag. I don't even use them if someone wants me. You can even touch my cell my Louis Vuitton shoes on, you know, high end group Facebook group and things like that. I'm like, I don't care about this anymore. What I care about is spending time, quality time and I know you don't like quality time but for me quality time is sitting with my daughter and playing board game. So quality time with my daughters and just having fun and walking my dog and just doing simple thing going in the Royal National Park and company in the wild and those are full moons that's what I want on the site. I don't care. I don't not like quality time. I think people think quality time is what it isn't. Quality Time is taking your kid to the zoo and spending a lot of money on them and having a quite a stressful day but no one really enjoys for me all time is quality. Exactly. As we as you said some of the best times are just going to Cole's with my son and dog in crap as we wander down the shampoo. While it may not be something you can put on Instagram, but it is it's better and more quality and this is it. I went to an event with entrepreneurs and one of them was like you know, I like expensive things and I like travel and there's nothing wrong with that. I have in my life enjoyed expensive things and we're not I'm not gonna judge old me but in this phase of my life I Yeah, you know the joy of just pottering around having my dog or having a coffee sitting at my desk talking to nice people like you finishing at three. You know what, making a nice dinner hanging out with my son and watching Netflix. I love that and I've said to people I just want that day after day after day, no drama, and I've said this before it's become a bit of a cliche, but I think we often mistake stress for excitement. And we often mistake contentment for boredom. You know, and I tell you, I'd rather be bored every day than the constant up and down and the thrill of this and that it just does not work for me anymore. I'm too tired. Yeah, and this is a dopamine hit that a lot of people are searching but actually we live on a society with too much dopamine and there is this beautiful book if you haven't read it. Sorry for anyone who is not watching this, but it's called flourish. It's so the author is Antonia Kay's, and she writes a beautiful magazine called called womankind to be spiritual. And I went to her book launch I met her in person that I love her work. She has another magazine, which is called New philosopher, which I really love if you're into philosophy. It's a bit of a philosophical book, but it's all of that it's how we need to step away from the dopamine and I'm not interested in the dopamine I burnt out when I was in strategy consulting, I just want a peaceful, easy, slow fucking life. That's what I was important. Well, I think it's shifting from dopamine, serotonin. There's another great book called dopamine nation by Anna Limca which is all about you know, this. It's that sub is finding balance in an age of indulgence. You know, we're in this culture whereas Amazon Prime binge, the show, have things Eber eats delivered within two minutes. And we you know, we've lost the struggle, the joy of the struggle, and the joy of that, you know, just keep swimming and the serotonin you know, you know, in the whole dose, neurology, whatever dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin and endorphins, I'll go for oxytocin and serotonin all the time and then endorphins I don't think you can go for they are a result of oxytocin and serotonin. And I think that's a big shift that I've had this not immediate pleasure this immediate affirmation. Yesterday though, the teacher I totally went for dopamine, I needed it. I needed a little something something. I got the new cover for my new book. And I haven't finished the book. And my rule is you're not allowed to get the reward for doing something just by announcing it. You have to finish it, like, you know, people like I'm gonna launch a podcast. Everyone's like, yeah.
Kate Toon 25:40
And they're like, Yeah, thanks. Thanks. I haven't done anything. I haven't done anything yet. But I did share my cover in the book and I got all these comments and it felt great and then I was like, Oh, God, I haven't even finished it. So yeah, you will finish it. So you're so good at this. I can't wait to see the cover. Where has it been shared? It's just in my private group, because I'm gonna have a bit of a I'm not going to share it publicly until I've finished it. That's my reward. That's my carrot again, my Okay, I'll wait for that then. But this is beautiful, because you're actually helping me shifting to the book writing and you know, your legacy and all that. So do you want to share with us about your own journey and why did you write one book? Why are you writing a second book? And why are you even thinking already about a third book because I just finished writing my first one. And I'm still you know, it's like a baby.
Laetitia Andrac 26:29
Yeah, not ready yet to buy to write the next one. But I'm so ready for you to write a second one's okay. guide us through this. You know, why writing books when we know writing book is definitely not money making activity people. So if you're like, Oh, my God.
Kate Toon 26:47
Just watch out for this. But it's an indulgence. You know, it's I've written several books before this books. I wrote a book of poetry. I wrote a kid Illustrated Kids book and I also wrote a previous business book called Confessions of a misfit entrepreneur. So I've I have some legacy. I think, you know, when we talk about identity, I've always wanted to be a writer. That's really who I want to be. That's what I imagined myself being that's my dream. Obviously, I would love my not obviously but I would love to write novels historical fiction, or that kind of stuff. But for the time being, I have money to make so I will put my superpower two books I have been a copywriter for years. So writing comes easier to me than most people. I'm good with deadlines. I'm gonna be structure and I'm very motivated. I'm able to force myself to write the book. Why did I write six figures in school house? Look, I'll be honest, I felt like it was a good idea. Because there's many books I could write. But a book that would sell and a book that would resonate is a different thing. And I wanted a book that would sell I wanted a book that would go into book shops. I wanted to have my airport bookshop moment that's what I wanted. And so a little bit less you know about helping people but the result of my cynical wanting my apple bookshop moment, my you know, selfish has become an absolute altruism feast, the number of messages and comments I get back from people that say, there's a danger in my life, but it's become into this beautiful thing that I I mean, I knew I kind of there was a germ of that, but it wasn't my intention. So it's funny how when your intention evolves, it becomes something else, and babbling again. But yeah, now it's helping people. And that's rather lovely and connecting me with an audience that I didn't have previously. And as you said, Why is old crone passing on ideas to younger Crone?
Laetitia Andrac 28:40
The journey you know, yeah, it's beautiful. And can you tell us what your next book is about? Or is it spoiling it? No, it's about it's really about passive income, which I know is a bit of a not through shares, or rental or anything like that, but through taking your skills and your services and turning them into products that can be sold one to many, rather than one to one so yeah, it's really for any anybody really could be not even a business owner. Maybe you're really good at crochet, or maybe you love baking cakes. How can you take your skill that you love and turn it into something that makes you money without having to work? One on one with people being able to sell it one to many, so yeah, that's the gist of it. Amazing. I can't wait to hear the title and see the cover. So now we are closing this podcast before I invite you to share how people can connect with you and so on. I always love to ask biased by chat question. So please don't think just come up with a word that comes up to you. You're ready. It's only five questions, because I work on five. It's my life path number. Okay. You're ready. Yeah. So intuition is going with your gut strategy. is boring, and usually an implementable?